Why do nice guys always finish last?

Originally Published: April 21, 2000 - Last Updated / Reviewed On: October 8, 2012
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Hey Alice...

Just a quick question: why is it that nice guys always finish last? I've tried being nice all my life (nineteen yrs) to women, yet I get nothing; yet if some guy who treats them really badly comes in, they're the ones who end up with a girlfriend, and me with squat. What's the deal?!

Thanks

Dear Nice guy,

Whatever you do, don't stop being nice! Just knowing that you're out there treating people right makes Alice's hard drive hum with hope and inspiration. Being yourself may not have yielded a girlfriend, yet, but genuinely nice guys and gals (and you know who you are) develop their self-esteem, their integrity, their spirits, and their souls in ways that will keep them coming in first for a long time. Of course, we want companionship for validation and love and much more, but since we determine in what place we finish, can't that place also be first?

So, why do so many of us chase after those who treat us wrong? Some counselors might say it's because we don't respect ourselves enough — we don't feel deserving of Mr./Ms. Niceperson and are either blind to being treated badly, or are willing to take it as the price paid for not being so great ourselves. Many women in many cultures "take it" all the time because sociocultural training and expectations don't support women who assert themselves to men. In a strange way, pursuing and sticking with the not-so-nice partners can validate a belief held by some that they will never be in a successful relationship. Could these thoughts and actions also trickle down from parents who modeled similar behaviors? The list of possibilities goes on and can include fears about getting too close or too intimate with someone; in theory, it's easier to do this with nice guys. And let's not forget that some like the challenge of "winning" a partner's attention and affection, and overvalue even the little successes that in total rarely add up to the healthy, whole relationships that we desire and deserve.

If you would like to read about one man's journey as a "nice guy," check out Hope for the Nice Guy by Tad Spencer.

Well, now that we've done some armchair psychoanalysis, maybe you feel that you've got a little more than squat — even if it's not holding your hand and kissing you goodnight. If you still believe that nice guys finish last, okay, but hopefully they're more likely to finish feeling good.

Alice

February 4, 2014

550958
Your time will come:) I was the "nice guy" all through school and didn't get any attention from the ladies. Now I'm 24 dating the hottest woman i could have imagined... Everyone's priorities change...
Your time will come:) I was the "nice guy" all through school and didn't get any attention from the ladies. Now I'm 24 dating the hottest woman i could have imagined... Everyone's priorities change..including women's. Stick it out and you'll be turning women down left and right :)

January 22, 2014

549396
Girls are always drawn to the bad boy image. Why? Women like their men to be confident, take control. However, the problem is, many of them mistake arrogance for confidence. True confidence is...
Girls are always drawn to the bad boy image. Why? Women like their men to be confident, take control. However, the problem is, many of them mistake arrogance for confidence. True confidence is from within and doesn't need to be on display every minute of the day. Unfortunately for us nice guys out here, we will always be frustrated in seeing the girl of our dreams whisked away by some jerk who was rude to a waiter in a restaurant, or whose head is almost too big to fit through the door.

January 22, 2013

522193
From the "Legion of Nice Guys", I do not think that you have to worry. We do not even attempt to play, since being reasonable, having some morals,being emplued and caring about others is considered "...
From the "Legion of Nice Guys", I do not think that you have to worry. We do not even attempt to play, since being reasonable, having some morals,being emplued and caring about others is considered "BORING. We just wait until our late thirties and early forties when our lives are more solid and we can be approached by women who can appreciate us with no games to play. Numbers do show that men are not approaching women as much anymore.

January 6, 2013

521268
And PS - my boyfriends have always been really nice. Three long term relationships in my life and although it didn't work out in the end, we were always both well suited, nice to each other, never...
And PS - my boyfriends have always been really nice. Three long term relationships in my life and although it didn't work out in the end, we were always both well suited, nice to each other, never fought or hurt each other and were better people for having known each other. My current partner is amazing and all these things. But I didn't ever meet them in a bar, I was never attracted to them because they were making an effort to BE nice. They weren't complimenting me, spinning me nice lines, trying to convince me how nice they are. That sort of thing is off-putting. We met through mutual interests, in a way which demonstrated both of our true personalities. I was attracted to them because they were clever and knowledgeable about the things they do, they were positive and secure in themselves regardless of whether they were attracting someone or not. The sparks were caused by a meeting of minds not because I was flattered into submission. Hope this helps.

January 6, 2013

521266
Dear "Nice Guy" - so spending 19 years being nice to women got you nothing. Hopefully you are more of a rounded character than just the 'being nice'. No person is looking for a partner who is being...
Dear "Nice Guy" - so spending 19 years being nice to women got you nothing. Hopefully you are more of a rounded character than just the 'being nice'. No person is looking for a partner who is being nice in order to gain personally from it. If you are being yourself and someone is not attracted to you, that's fine. It happens to both genders - see September 19th reply. To carry on trying for a relationship with someone who has communicated their lack of interest is pointless. Plenty of men continue friendship in this hope and finally get upset at the end when no relationship comes of it, and withdraw their friendships.

December 6, 2012

519740
that is very true indeed. i am a straight man trying to find love again, and it is very extremely hard. why is that?, and i don't know myself. then again, now that we have so many very nasty women...
that is very true indeed. i am a straight man trying to find love again, and it is very extremely hard. why is that?, and i don't know myself. then again, now that we have so many very nasty women out there with an attitude problem, that explains it. many women have become so very hard to start a conversation with, and are not friendly at all. and yet, they will go with the ugliest men that i ever seen. i guess many of these men have a lot of money, and nowadays women like men with large bank accounts.

September 19, 2012

516469
I think that Alice got it so right, and it helps to read all the comments and to know how other single nice guys and women cope with their loneliness and frustration. It's so difficult and...
I think that Alice got it so right, and it helps to read all the comments and to know how other single nice guys and women cope with their loneliness and frustration. It's so difficult and bewildering to be rejected, when you would think that your qualities would be appreciated and lead to a loving relationship. As a nice guy who had been very shy (and also strong and no pushover), I'm considerably less so now...Every once in a while a woman goes after me, but it's never one of the many women I like and am attracted to. I feel it's better not to settle and to live single even when you may feel life has a missing piece...I wish we had a way to bring together the nice and shy people who want to share simple joys and passion. We're out here.

June 27, 2012

513048
It took me a LOT of growing up and being married to a true jerk to understand how great it is to be married to a nice guy. My kids call him dorky, my male friends say he doesn't "give them a hard on...
It took me a LOT of growing up and being married to a true jerk to understand how great it is to be married to a nice guy. My kids call him dorky, my male friends say he doesn't "give them a hard on" (male talk for 'He's not cool,) but I wouldn't trade being treated like a queen every day for anything. I'm free and SMART to say I love him without looking like a fool, because no matter what anyone says, He's in first place for very good reason and they know it.

March 22, 2012

508984
Listen. It is not only nice guys that finish last, it's also nice girls. I am in love with a man that is quite a few years older than me. I have loved him for a little over 2 and a half years. We...
Listen. It is not only nice guys that finish last, it's also nice girls. I am in love with a man that is quite a few years older than me. I have loved him for a little over 2 and a half years. We dated for a while, and yes, he would be concidered a "bad boy". I cooked, I cleaned, I did laundry, I drove him around, I bought him clothes and things he wanted, I did EVERYTHING I could possibly do to keep him and what happens. My supposed "best friend" tricks him on the type of person she is and married him within 3 months. She didn't love him, she just wanted to prove that she could lure him away from someone prettier. And now the are both miserable and he still manages to use me because I love him. Then he breaks my heart all over again. So yes, some of us women do know what that's like. And we are sorry. But we get the bad end of the deal too.

October 29, 2009

21281
To the reader:

I just want to say that nice guys don't finish last... I am a 21 year old "nice guy." I have always treated girls nicely and with respect. Sure, I had a few girls tell me we couldn...

To the reader:

I just want to say that nice guys don't finish last... I am a 21 year old "nice guy." I have always treated girls nicely and with respect. Sure, I had a few girls tell me we couldn't date because I was "like their brother" or "too good of a friend." But that did not stop me from from being a nice guy. Finally, it paid off for me. I met an incredible girl, she is extremely intelligent, funny, talented and as an added bonus, incredibly gorgeous. We have been dating for 4 years and we are in love with one another. Every one of my "bad boy" friends is extremely jealous, because they all wish they were dating her. I hope all you nice guys out there are encouraged by this story... good luck!

October 17, 2007

21288
I have to tell you all that I am really happy that I found this site and this question. I do not think that it is just nice guys that finish last, but nice girls too! I am the type of girl that would...
I have to tell you all that I am really happy that I found this site and this question. I do not think that it is just nice guys that finish last, but nice girls too! I am the type of girl that would do anything for the right guy! I cook, clean, bake.. I could never ever hurt any one. I just do not have that wicked bone in me. I really wish that all of the nice guys in the world would stand up and stand out so that I could find one!! I hate having my heart broken constantly, and to be honest with you i think that 20 is too young to be lonely! (I am!) So come on nice guys. Where are you?? I'm a nice girl and I'm right here :) come and get me!

March 27, 2007

21216
Dear Alice,

I hate this question because it is always asked not by nice guys but by doormats or men who are terrified of women and so act "nice," like timid mice around cats. Nice guys don't...

Dear Alice,

I hate this question because it is always asked not by nice guys but by doormats or men who are terrified of women and so act "nice," like timid mice around cats. Nice guys don't finish last.

Girls who go for mean or emotionally abusive guys have emotional problems and low self-esteem. People with healthy relationships are "nice" to each other and have enough of their own power in their personality to make things interesting for each other. Grab your self esteem, and know that sucking up to a woman isn't going to win her over. She wants someone who is her equal, otherwise it is boring.

Your problem isn't that you are being too nice, but that you don't have confidence. Women want Harry Potter not Ron Weasley.

May 18, 2006

21073

Dear Alice,

This is a tip for all of you shy nice guys. The Beatles wrote a song for all of the shy, nice guys who are afraid to talk to that certain someone. The song is called, "Hey...

Dear Alice,

This is a tip for all of you shy nice guys. The Beatles wrote a song for all of the shy, nice guys who are afraid to talk to that certain someone. The song is called, "Hey Jude." Listen to it and analyze the lyrics, you will see what I mean. Good luck nice guys!

April 21, 2006

21014

Alice,

RE: Why nice guys always finish last?

With how many women have the "nice guys" interacted? I submit to you that some people on this board confuse "nice guy" with "low self-...

Alice,

RE: Why nice guys always finish last?

With how many women have the "nice guys" interacted? I submit to you that some people on this board confuse "nice guy" with "low self-esteem can't see how anyone would benefit by dating me" guy. I am speaking from experience. Think about some of the most popular romantic figures in popular culture. Are they mean? No. They do recognize that they can make a valuable contribution to a relationship, so therefore, when the opportunity arises they are not ashamed or afraid to pleasure both themselves and their partners physically and emotionally. The "nice guy" feels that by not approaching he is somehow being "nice," when in fact, he is denying the woman (or man) the opportunity to feel desired and appreciated. That isn't very nice. (By approaching I don't mean physically attacking, but rather asking her/him out or a gentle non sexual touch on the arm.)

November 23, 2005

20993
Dear Alice,

This is to Dear Nice Guy:

I wish I could find a nice guy like you. Don't think that all girls only want those "bad" type of boys, because not all of us do. Don't get down on...

Dear Alice,

This is to Dear Nice Guy:

I wish I could find a nice guy like you. Don't think that all girls only want those "bad" type of boys, because not all of us do. Don't get down on yourself, you'll find the perfect woman someday. Just be yourself and if she is the one, she will love you for all that you are.

September 29, 2005

20978
Dear Alice,

I am a 25-year-old female interested in a shy, introverted, nice guy. He is patient, kind, considerate, respectful, tender-hearted, handsome, and very much a gentleman. We hang out...

Dear Alice,

I am a 25-year-old female interested in a shy, introverted, nice guy. He is patient, kind, considerate, respectful, tender-hearted, handsome, and very much a gentleman. We hang out a lot together and have gone on several dates. I really, really like this man and think about him a lot. The problem is that he is so nervous and constantly misses all the signals I am sending him, or is too afraid to make a move. Sigh... sigh... it's flustering, but I am persistent and patient... I know there's a connection and that it may just take some time for him to work up his confidence. Besides, a relationship which evolves from friendship is more likely to possess the very foundation it needs to go the distance.

Dave M., if you run across this... I LIKE YOU, YOU'RE AN AMAZING MAN AND YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT... MAKE ME YOURS!!

—Erin—

August 25, 2005

20976
Dear Alice,

I just bumped onto this website for some advice on fitness and nutrition when I happened to notice your article on "Why do nice guys always finish last?"

And you are so right...

Dear Alice,

I just bumped onto this website for some advice on fitness and nutrition when I happened to notice your article on "Why do nice guys always finish last?"

And you are so right. Nice guys will always finish last if they don't take risks and are unwilling to evolve beyond who they really are. Nice guys can't really tell who they really are as they are so busy pretending who they are not — always so nice, it's so predictable. In this society of perfection and conformity, it's no wonder that many of these nice guys succumb to the generally accepted society ways. They think that's the way they should act, but women, expecially the experienced ones, aren't easily fooled.

I read a comment about not being in a friend zone... Women feel at ease associating themselves with men who have great positive friends. It is the negative and enclosed friends that nice guys sometimes associate with that is actually doing more harm than good. Women friends that take advantage of the niceness of a nice guy is really not a great positive friend to hang around with.

My advice to nice guys who finish last is to not give up. Accept who you are and move on. Think positive and don't give up. Be friends with positive people who like the challenge in life.

As your life grows, your choices become more mature. Do not be alarmed to find that sometimes, you are rejecting far more potential mates or they reject you. That demonstrates that you are far more wise and are unwilling to settle for anything less than who you really are.

And if you decide to become who you really are, challenge comes naturally. No pretending necessary. I know, as I had been there and done that...

Hope this helps.

July 7, 2005

20917
Dear Alice,

What I wouldn't give to find a nice guy! I am a nice girl, the girl next door, the girl who the guys see as a friend and nothing more (yes, it does happen to us, too!). I have had my...

Dear Alice,

What I wouldn't give to find a nice guy! I am a nice girl, the girl next door, the girl who the guys see as a friend and nothing more (yes, it does happen to us, too!). I have had my share of "bad boys" (losers) throw themselves at me and I could care less. I want a nice guy and I have no freakin' clue where any of them are. Maybe us nice people have the same problem that we can't see the forest for the trees. We're just looking so hard for someone to love and to love us in return that we accidentally overlook those who we really want to be with. Nice guys, don't give up, really. I honestly know how frustrated and lonely you are because I'm just as frustrated and lonely. Don't give up because there are girls just like me out there who are looking for you!

June 21, 2005

20904
Dear Alice,

I just wanted to respond to Why do nice guys always finish last?. I have to agree with Alice! in her opinion that...

Dear Alice,

I just wanted to respond to Why do nice guys always finish last?. I have to agree with Alice! in her opinion that you SHOULD NOT stop being nice. I've come to realize in the last couple of years that not only do nice guys always seem to finish last, but nice girls do, also. I've always tried to be good to people, and to the guys I date, and it seems to get me nowhere. I've never cheated on anyone, nor would I ever, and I'm kind and loyal to my boyfriends. However, I've had roughly 20 boyfriends since I started dating (when I was 12), and I'm not kidding, I have been cheated on by EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM except one, and the reason why the two of us broke up is that he moved away. Why would people want to do that? I've had a lot of bad relationships, and I decided two years ago (when I was 16) that I just wouldn't worry about dating. I know that can seem hard to do, but if you don't walk through each day in hopes of finding a "mate," then that mate will eventually cross your path, and you'll know when it's real. It also helps you find out who YOU really are, and what YOU really want. Although I haven't found my mate yet, I know that he is out there somewhere, just waiting to become a part of my life.

In conclusion, I tell you again: don't stop being nice! It will get you much farther in life than being mean, and people greatly appreciate your kindness, whether or not they show it. And remember — the one for you IS out there!

Kelli

May 13, 2005

20901
Alice,

I, inexplicably, always found myself attracted to guys who were physically attractive as I admired from afar, but who turned out to be real jerks who didn't care about anyone else, myself...

Alice,

I, inexplicably, always found myself attracted to guys who were physically attractive as I admired from afar, but who turned out to be real jerks who didn't care about anyone else, myself included. Recently I met a guy who is not universally attractive or popular, but who is so kind and funny and caring that I have much deeper feelings for him than any of the "pretty faces." Being yourself, a "nice guy," WILL pay off when girls realize what you have to offer. Being treated badly gets old, and makes a deep, loving, thoughtful relationship all the more wonderful when we are ready for it.

January 27, 2005

20846
Alice,

I am an attractive woman in my late thirties, and was really starting to wonder if I would spend my fortieth birthday alone — NOT at all desirable in this society, for sure.

I...

Alice,

I am an attractive woman in my late thirties, and was really starting to wonder if I would spend my fortieth birthday alone — NOT at all desirable in this society, for sure.

I have to confess, I only started paying attention to the nice guys after the jerks wore me out... I dated guys who cleaned out my bank accounts and shot my self-esteem full of holes. I even fell for one guy who started to get violent... and that same night, I took a friend who was an NRA member and a cop up to his place to move my stuff out. This guy, who looked like a movie star, was really a monster with an arrest record for domestic violence just about as long as his arm.

So, the nice, cuddly "cute but not handsome" types started to appeal to me. I realized with my background and upbringing, that the "right" guys simply don't come along that often. And the "right" guys may be too shy to say anything... the guys that get all the attention are the ones that mouth off or act all aloof and mysterious or make speeches about how they would rule the world from their couches... but they don't fool me anymore.

I have now found a wonderful, outgoing, snuggly, warm, and supportive truly nice guy. He is not tall, dark, or handsome, but is a cute teddy bear who I know will take care of me and hold me when the going gets rough, because he already has. He has fished my head out of the toilet several times when my thoughts have almost sent me down the drain. And the sex has been the biggest surprise... he is the only one that I have felt 100% compatible with in bed, and I would never have guessed by looking at him and judging him prematurely... now, THAT is the guy I will marry in a few weeks, not some GQ-esque asshole whom I have to spend 4 years "figuring out" or "learning to understand."

Life is short, girls, go for the ones who treat you like a queen, and who will really be there for you. My life improved drastically when I decided I wanted to come home to a comforting human being — someone I can really talk to. If I need to look at something, I will buy a poster or magazine, and I will thank God that I don't have to live with Mr. Cover Model... been there, done that... and don't want to remember. You don't deserve any less girls, but remember this: you WILL get what you settle for.

December 16, 2004

20827
Dear Alice,

I'd actually like to think of myself as a nice girl, and as such, I have a couple of responses to this query.

As has been abundantly stated, part of the problem is that nice...

Dear Alice,

I'd actually like to think of myself as a nice girl, and as such, I have a couple of responses to this query.

As has been abundantly stated, part of the problem is that nice people, be they girls or guys, do tend to be a bit passive. Personally I finally pinned down a nice guy who'd been a friend of mine, but for the longest time, I couldn't tell if he actually liked me, or if he was just flirting with me as a joke. Many of us chicks have tragically low self-esteem, and we do tend to assume that you couldn't possibly be interested in us unless you say otherwise. We're dense like that sometimes.

Another point I would like to make, as a nice girl, is this: which girls are you being "nice guys" to? We girls aren't the only ones who romanticize pretty jerks and ignore the plainer janes who are right next to us. I've been smitten with best friend boys and listened to them talk about their relationship problems with skinnier, blonder, prettier girls who treated them poorly. You might want to assess your situation and ask yourself if this girl is really what you're looking for.

And thirdly, just because this hasn't been mentioned, I do have one big problem with nice guys, which is that they can be somewhat fragile. I don't want to break anybody. Even if I know they're nice people, I feel the uncontrollable urge to run like hell from people who I feel like I could deeply hurt without really meaning to (or far worse, whose happiness is "totally dependant" on me). I was in a relationship with a guy like this far longer than I was comfortable being around him, but I couldn't bring myself to stop seeing him because I was genuinely afraid he would hurt himself. It's not a situation I ever want to be in again. And to be honest, it's not a lot easier to tell a friend you don't love them, because we do understand that it hurts a lot. I'm not saying for sure that this is what's going on with other girls out there, but I think perhaps many of us would rather see ourselves as the sweet, innocent victim of a jerk than be the witch who broke some nice guy's fragile heart.

July 7, 2004

20764
Dear Alice,

Nice guys are exactly what women want BUT women need more than just a nice guy saying "yes dear." A guy that is just a nice guy could just as well be a woman in a woman's mind...

Dear Alice,

Nice guys are exactly what women want BUT women need more than just a nice guy saying "yes dear." A guy that is just a nice guy could just as well be a woman in a woman's mind because he fulfills her friendship needs but he does not turn on the spark within her. In order for a relationship to work, both should be nice but also both should be physically and emotionally attracted to one another. If one is just nice, then that attraction does not spark for the woman. A woman likes being treated well, but she also likes a man that knows what he wants; a man that can lead and make decisions. A man that is strong internally. These are sexy qualities for a woman because they show a man is a man, not a wimp. Some men just show their "manly" side and are real jerks because they lack niceness. These men may pick up more girls but in the end, I don't think they finish first either. I think they are the biggest losers of all. However, a nice guy that knows how to love a woman and be confident and strong is a real winner for any woman.

July 6, 2004

20761
hey alice,

This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last?

As a teen in a high school environment, I have...

hey alice,

This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last?

As a teen in a high school environment, I have from early on fell victim to "Nice guy" syndrome. After several relationship failures, I began to ponder, "What exactly am I doing wrong here?" I would observe the jocks in my school and found how poorly they treated their girlfriends. I have found some key differences between the nice guy and the jerk.

The nice guy lives to please everyone around him at all costs — even if it means he has to sacrifice his own happiness. The nice guy does not practice the game of challenge and eventually gets dumped as the girl he loves becomes bored with all the niceness.

The jerk is a strong, dominant, untamable man who knows the dating game and how to prioritize his life — putting himself first. He won't let people walk all over him, and by doing so, he effectively becomes a challenge.

The reason women prefer to have nice guys as simple 'friends' is because they are listeners, thinkers, and nothing else. They are caring and trustworthy; but, unfortunately, they usually do not have the "fire" that the jerks have. This "fire" is absolutely necessary in a relationship because it adds challenge and excitement. If it is not obtained, boredom will choke the relationship to death.

Women want excitement, not boredom; so by becoming a CHALLENGE, women will not become bored.

After all, almost every activity humans do is enjoyed more when it is more challenging.

In conclusion, if being a "nice guy" fits the description I mentioned above, then I hate to say it but we are doomed to failure. However, if the nice guy throws excitement, challenge, and a bit of lust into the relationship, he will finally finish first.

Hope this will help some nice guys out.

-Zach

June 30, 2004

20757
Hey Alice!

I am writing in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? All of my guy friends are "nice guys" and wonderful people...

Hey Alice!

I am writing in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? All of my guy friends are "nice guys" and wonderful people; sometimes women are attracted to them, sometimes not. As in the case of "sometimes not," I think that their problem is that they do not make their feelings known. I am a nice person and am really attracted to nice guys, but when they don't tell me that they are interested in me, I write them off as... well, not interested. Nice guys should never change who they are, but if they want a woman, they have to be assertive.

As encouragement to nice guys everywhere, there are many nice women. Most of my girl friends and I are extremely nice, fun, happy people and, as I know for a fact, would love to meet/fall in love/have a lasting relationship with a nice guy.

And in response to all the discouraged nice guys, instead of lingering on the fact that you don't have a nice girl now, focus on how you can meet new people and perhaps find a person who is romantically interested in you. Remember, there are many nice girls out there, just waiting to meet their nice guy!

May 21, 2004

20732
Alice,

In response to WHY DO NICE GUYS ALWAYS FINISH LAST?:

To the lady who wrote comment (39)—

Thank you for this:

"Don't search for...

Alice,

In response to WHY DO NICE GUYS ALWAYS FINISH LAST?:

To the lady who wrote comment (39)—

Thank you for this:

"Don't search for someone to make your life complete; make your own life complete, and when someone comes along, you'll have something interesting to offer."

:) That's probably some of the most truthful, wonderful, and eloquent pieces of advice I'll ever receive as far as relationships go. I think it is something that everyone (nice or "not-so-nice," male and female) should take to heart.

No one wants a sad-eyed puppy following in their shadow, but a partner who will stand beside them.

I never used to 'risk' anything when it came to asking out a guy because I was too "shy" or "nice"... and honestly, it was all a bunch of excuses I used to rationalize my silly behavior. And when I finally did stick myself out there, I ended up asking a real loser... all slick and sweet on the outside and rotten on the inside. Luckily for me, I realized he was a jerk (though I admit it took a while) and am pleased to say it is now much easier to see the worthwhile "nice guys" that are out there.

So, as is repeated here many, many times, do not lose hope. It would seem to me that most of us "nice girls" are having as much trouble finding "nice guys," so just know you`re not alone out there. :)

Nothing is ever a guarantee, but you'll never 'win' if you give up, for that is the only way you ever really 'lose.'

Always on the lookout for that perfect, confident-nice guy, perfect for me, that is. :)

-Caroline

May 9, 2004

20644
Dear Alice, This is in response to Alice's response to, Why do nice guys always finish last?: Oh how I wish her response were true. I'm...
Dear Alice, This is in response to Alice's response to, Why do nice guys always finish last?: Oh how I wish her response were true. I'm a forty-year-old single nice guy. Women continue to overlook us nice guys, unless we're good looking or rich. I don't agree with her statement about developing our "self esteem, integrity, spirits, and souls in ways that will keep them coming in first for a long time." I haven't come in first my whole life. Being consistently ignored and overlooked does nothing but hurt self-esteem, spirits, and souls of nice guys. Being the consummate nice guy, women become your "friend," then say those words we dread the most like, "you're such a sweet guy, I don't want to lose you as a friend," or the Ultimate, "you're just like a brother to me." Then they'll go on and talk about this hot guy, or how good looking another guy is, and how they want to be with them. The original writer is still young so there's still hope for him, but yes, many of us nice guys end up with squat. It's awfully hard feeling good while still living your life alone all the time, with nobody holding your hand and kissing you goodnight, to paraphrase your response. It's hard in this society to feel good when all around you there are couples and families sharing their lives. I've about given up, after this many years living alone, people think there must be something wrong with you, or you're strange. I would advise the young writer to just get out there and keep trying. Don't make the mistakes I did and just think that eventually, that by being yourself, you'll find someone. Change yourself if that's what it takes. Signed, An old single nice guy.....

May 9, 2004

20645
Hi Alice, I too am one of those "nice guys." After thirteen years of dating, I've heard it all. "You're too nice," "You're like dating my brother," "You're too good of a friend to take a chance...
Hi Alice, I too am one of those "nice guys." After thirteen years of dating, I've heard it all. "You're too nice," "You're like dating my brother," "You're too good of a friend to take a chance on dating," and the statements go on. It's difficult keeping your self-esteem when you are constantly bombarded by these statements and consistently turned down after short relationships. You'd think that with the state society is in with the number of divorce and abuse cases, that women wouldn't settle for the bottom of the barrel. There are a lot of us "nice guys" out there who are attractive, financially secure, have a great sense of humor and great personalities, and have a heart they are more than willing to share. We're waiting to find the right woman. If only some of those women would give us a chance... they don't know what they're missing. After a six-month relationship, my girlfriend dished out one of those lines hours before our flight left for our one-week vacation. As positive as I try to stay, after thirteen years of turndowns and dumpings, I have to agree that "nice guys finish last." I'm waiting for the one woman who comes along and proves that statement wrong to me. Frustrated with the nice guy syndrome

May 9, 2004

20646
Dear Alice, This is in response to the second response to Why do nice guys always finish last?[Reader Responses] An Old Single Nice Guy...
Dear Alice, This is in response to the second response to Why do nice guys always finish last?[Reader Responses] An Old Single Nice Guy said: "Change yourself if that's what it takes." I encourage you not to do that — you can't really change who you are; all you would be changing is the way you act. If you end up in a relationship based on a lie, you will feel emptier and lonelier than you do already. I'm female and while I wouldn't describe myself as "nice" [not that I'm a raving bitch or anything :) ], I have a similar problem in that the guys that I'm interested in never seem to be interested in me. I know it gets lonely, but sometimes you have to pay a price for being yourself. In the end, it's worth it, because you don't end up with a life based on falsehood. :) Sometimes Lonely

May 9, 2004

20647
Alice, I wanted to respond to the Why do nice guys always finish last? discussion. As I read the reader responses, I remembered how I...
Alice, I wanted to respond to the Why do nice guys always finish last? discussion. As I read the reader responses, I remembered how I used to feel the same way. I also had a thought that you might want to share with some of the other "nice guys" out there: Nice guys don't finish last, passive guys finish last. A loud and brash "jock" who asks a girl out on a date may or may not be nice, but he will always get more dates than the "nice guy" who just watches from afar. Self-confidence, self-esteem: they aren't necessary, but you have to be noticed to finish first. It is probably every shy guy's fantasy that the beautiful girl in school will come ask him out, but unfortunately it is just a fantasy. Still a Nice Guy

May 9, 2004

20648
Dear Alice, I'm writing in response to the "nice guy" letter and the zillion responses to his question. I know that there are girls out there (and it seems like most of them) who only go for the...
Dear Alice, I'm writing in response to the "nice guy" letter and the zillion responses to his question. I know that there are girls out there (and it seems like most of them) who only go for the wild and crazy guys, but I happen to like guys who can chill and have fun without any pressure. Nice guys. My roommate is dating one of the wild guys, and I'm dating *his* roommate, who is one of the sweetest, most low-key, nicest guys you'll ever meet. That's what drew me to him first — he was cool, he knew how to have fun, but I could tell that there just wasn't a bone in his body that could intentionally hurt anyone unless they really hurt him first. I was really lucky that he fell in love with me, too; so I'm telling all of you nice guys to never, ever give up. There are girls out there that just need to come around and realize that nice guys are the kind of person that they need to be with. I don't even know if I completely deserve the love that I receive from my nice guy, but I'm really glad I have it! Nice Guy Fanatic

May 9, 2004

20649
Hey all you nice guys out there, I know what you mean, and let me tell you, I am a nice guy, too. I used to ask that question all the time, why was I finishing last all the time? I wanted all the...
Hey all you nice guys out there, I know what you mean, and let me tell you, I am a nice guy, too. I used to ask that question all the time, why was I finishing last all the time? I wanted all the attention from girls that my "less nice" acquaintances seemed to get. However, I soon realised that the only person who truly appreciates a nice guy is a "nice girl," and to be honest, I think that they are rather hard to find. However, after talking to some nice-ish girls, it seems that they think that nice guys are hard to find, so make yourselves known nice guys!! A nice guy

May 9, 2004

20650
Dear Alice, This is a response to why nice guys finish last. I'm 25 and have been nice to girls ever since I was 6. I spoiled most of them, did what they asked and still, I never really got the...
Dear Alice, This is a response to why nice guys finish last. I'm 25 and have been nice to girls ever since I was 6. I spoiled most of them, did what they asked and still, I never really got the appreciation or "approval" from any of them. It seems that "Players" and "Lady Killers" always know where the gold is at. I could act out that part, but then the guilt would get to me. I did lie once to a girl I like, but I soon found that doing this would create problems in the long-run. It makes me sad when I see a girl that I really like, but they are never interested in me. Nice guys aren't COOL! This is the truth. I like being nice but girls look up to guys who seem to know themselves (self-esteem), and they also want to look cool. I just want a girl that sees me for what I am and not what they want me to be. If I do find such girl, I would spoil her as much as I can and at the same time, I would protect her with my life. I'm still young, but I am beginning to lose hope on this aspect of life. -orpheus

May 9, 2004

20651
Alice, This is in response to the Why do nice guys always finish last? discussion. Well, I, too, fit the category of what may be described as the "loveable loser," so to speak. I think Alice may...
Alice, This is in response to the Why do nice guys always finish last? discussion. Well, I, too, fit the category of what may be described as the "loveable loser," so to speak. I think Alice may have hit the nail on the head when she mentioned that some women may like the "challenge" of trying to (misguidedly) reform a "bad boy." I have heard this from quite a few of my female friends (being the king of the platonic relationship enables one to such privileges). I was taught to treat a lady with proper respect, i.e., hold the door for her when you're out on a date/do not ever strike a woman, etc. At best, my efforts have been met with the same dreaded responses that the Nice guy who posted the initial question received. I don't think I have a problem with self-esteem. I'm not one to brag about myself, but I'm a good person, educated, with a fairly decent paying job. But somehow the jerks always have somebody to spend a Saturday night with. I'm always told: just be yourself, you'll find that special someone, but so far it hasn't worked, and it's scary to think that because I'm shy, and not an obnoxious person, that I may spend the rest of my life alone. It's frustrating...

May 9, 2004

20652
Dear Alice, I couldn't work out where I should send this. I think this is the right place? Anyway, I wanted to comment on this oh-so-common nice guys finish last and bad guys always win...
Dear Alice, I couldn't work out where I should send this. I think this is the right place? Anyway, I wanted to comment on this oh-so-common nice guys finish last and bad guys always win misconception. It's just not true. I know a lot of great guys with great gfs. I'm not exactly a nice guy myself. I try to be, but it doesn't always work out that way 100 percent of the time. :) I've heard it said it's the excitement of bad guys girls crave. Girls into that sort of thing don't like situations that are really dangerous; they just like the fantasy and the thrill, it's like a roller coaster ride. You can be exciting without being "dangerous." Perhaps you go out clubbing every night, or you know a lot of people and get into the cool parties. Perhaps you're into art or something and so is the girl who you like. She might find that exciting! While being "bad" is seen by a lot of people as being cool and exciting, not everyone is into that sort of thing. The truth of the matter is, after the physical side of things (don't tell me that's not important; how often do you go and talk to the ugly girl to check out her personality?), it's about confidence and action. Most girls don't want a doormat for their lover. Girls like to be pursued; it makes them feel wanted. Of course, it's just no fun if they aren't into the person doing the pursuing. You have to sell yourself. Be strong minded and go in for the kill. If you're coming across as confident, amusing, and in control, you will do far better than if you come across as a needy, clingy, desperate wimp! Positive traits are called that because they make people feel positive emotions. Wouldn't you just love it if the girl you had your eyes on made all the moves on you? What makes you think she's any different? The guy who said it's not nice guys who finish last, it's passive guys, is so right. Don't confuse being passive, self-centered, miserable, and living your life through other people as being nice. Being nice is about considering how your actions affect people and giving people pleasure. That includes yourself, you know. At the end of the day, why do you treat people nicely? Because you think/feel it's the right thing to do? Are you rewarded with positive feelings when you do nice things for people? Think about that hard. If it makes you feel bad, it's probably not a good thing to do. If you've tried being a "best friend" or a "slave" or whatever and it makes you feel bad, perhaps you shouldn't do it anymore. One final point to consider is that people need the bad to appreciate the good. Be very careful here or you will ruin everything. Why not be a little late once in a while? It will make her appreciate the times you are on time a little bit more, and of course, after the argument that follows, the making up is always fun. I hope this helps some people out. Keep smiling. ;)

May 9, 2004

20653
Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? As a woman, I think I may have some ideas why. Often it has nothing to...
Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? As a woman, I think I may have some ideas why. Often it has nothing to do with whether a guy is "nice" or not, but other things that too often go with being nice. All too often, guys think that being "nice" implies giving the girl everything she wants, and no more. So these guys don't seem to have their own passions, their own excitement for life; they never show the girl anything new because they figure they are supposed to be passive. Sadly enough this is not the case! "Nice" guys, you can get all the girls you want: keep on caring and wanting to please (that's wonderful!), it just takes a little perspective on what women want. Women don't want a man who will blandly agree with them on everything; they want someone who will talk with them, listen well, and yet challenge their views. You should have your own opinions and your own exciting life, even as you care deeply for theirs. That way, you can both introduce each other to new things, and it's called "romance," not friendship. You can take a playful attitude towards romance, and try different things sometimes to play with emotions and see what happens. Things like jealousy and nervousness can go too far; but if taken with a playful attitude, they create drama. Don't avoid these things completely. Again, it is drama that makes the difference between friendship and romance. Being "nice" doesn't mean you always sit back and wait for her to do things; try something new, take initiative. If you really care about her, you will know that she will really enjoy it. She will start to take initiative on things as well. You will have a huge advantage over the mean guys! But either way, "nice" guys, keep it up. I think you are wonderful.

May 9, 2004

20654
Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I agree 100 percent with response #10 (I think). Nice guys think that...
Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I agree 100 percent with response #10 (I think). Nice guys think that being nice means spoiling a girl in every way, doing everything she wants. A relationship is supposed to be a give and take, and even the most selfish person will eventually get tired of always being on the receiving end. A partner who grants any whim or desire without having any of his own is bound to become boring. No, this is not because nice = boring, or because mean = exciting. Rather, it's because fulfilling relationships of any kind (including non-sexual relationships like friendship) are made richer through the depth they develop, as you discover the layers that make up the other person. If a guy doesn't come back at me with opinions and desires of his own — even if they contradict mine, or perhaps especially if they do — he seems one-dimensional. If I like romance movies, I'd like my guy to be willing to see one with me sometimes even if he doesn't like them, but I'd also want him to ask me to see an action or art movie with him... I want to feel like he has a variety of interests and that he wants me to become a part of his life as he is a part of mine. A submissive guy who spoils me makes me feel like he just wants to tag along in everything I want to do, like he doesn't care enough about anything to assert himself. Also, a guy who "spoils" me is the equivalent of a "yes-man" in business, or the teacher's pet in a classroom: I end up feeling like he will agree with anything I say or want to impress me, not because he actually values my opinions or feelings. As another responder pointed out, there seems to be a problem with the word "nice." Nice doesn't have to mean lap dog or spineless jellyfish. To me, nice means: -Open minded: whether it be world politics or television shows, be willing to try news things or consider new points of views. NOTE: not the same as agreeing with everything I say. -Kind, generous, etc...: just a good person in general. NOTE: not the same as a doormat. -Fair: makes up his mind based on the facts, not prejudice; has a sense of justice. NOTE: not the same as a pushover -Funny: he has to know how to make me laugh. And I don't mean racist humor or overly mean sarcasm. NOTE: not the same as self-deprecating humor and constant self-mockery... The list goes on, but you get my point. Another thing I'd like to mention is that one of the respondents' definition of "nice" seemed a little weird. He said he was raised to hold doors for girls, and not to beat them up. Now, I don't think of "not beating up girls" as nice; to me, it's more of a basic rule. And if he's reconsidering whether he should be a nice guy, I don't think he should reconsider that particular policy... All in all, to the guys on here who complained of being ignored because they're nice, I would say: the problem isn't that you're nice. It's that you're insecure and think that by pleasing others, they will like you. As Alice has said on numerous occasions, you need to believe you're worth loving, otherwise nothing else will work. If lack of attention from girls makes you feel like nice guys finish last, and erodes your self esteem, perhaps you should consider the possibility that you have low self-esteem to begin with, and when girls don't respond to your passive ways, you blame it on the fact that you're nice. You need to find a way to stop resenting others for what you perceive as the unfairness of the world, because bitterness is not an attractive trait. You need to stop complaining about the plight of nice guys, because whining is not an attractive trait. Just be yourself — but be confident, too. Don't say, "I'm nice even though girls don't like that." Say "I'm me." Period. If you shed the resentment, you'll become far more sexy...

May 9, 2004

20655
Alice, In regards to the Nice Guys finish last article, I just want to say that I really am looking for a nice guy, so have hope. There are a few of us nice girls out there, too; all we need to do...
Alice, In regards to the Nice Guys finish last article, I just want to say that I really am looking for a nice guy, so have hope. There are a few of us nice girls out there, too; all we need to do now is find each other. Every one seems to look at nice as nerdy or boring. It is not true. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, or party a lot, but I love to dance, see movies, go to the mountains, beach, rock climb, wind surf, laugh, and just basically have fun. Not only that, but according to friends, I'm pretty as well, and really sweet. So, don't worry Mr. Nice Guy. There is someone out there for you, and when you find her, I am sure it will be well worth the wait. Keep being nice; there are girls who will notice, and those are the ones you really want around anywise! -Miss. Nice Girl-

May 9, 2004

20656
nice! guys! finish! last! alice, it sickens me. all this wonderful talk of how great nice guys are! i'm a nice guy, i've been a nice guy all my life, and yet not a single bloody woman ever...
nice! guys! finish! last! alice, it sickens me. all this wonderful talk of how great nice guys are! i'm a nice guy, i've been a nice guy all my life, and yet not a single bloody woman ever seriously considered having a relationship with me but always said, "but you are a nice guy. it's not you, it's me"! it sickens me, if the only way to find companionship and someone to love is by being a prick, by god, i will be a prick. i'm tired of being alone, and being a nice guy never helped me in any way! i'm sitting here drinking one beer after the other only because i heard the aforementioned quote one more time, and honestly: being a nice guy has never got me anywhere. i'm tired! to all of you nice guys out there: lie, deceive, be dickheads, but maybe then you will finally manage to get a girl to go out with you. then you can show your nice side, and maybe then she will appreciate you. but no girl i ever met wanted to be with me! why? coz i'm a nice guy. fuck that!!!

May 9, 2004

20657
Dear Alice, This is another response for Why do nice guys always finish last? Nice guys just have to keep talking and trying. One of my...
Dear Alice, This is another response for Why do nice guys always finish last? Nice guys just have to keep talking and trying. One of my nice guy friends asked me why women don't see him. I replied, "The jerks have no problems speaking up and sometimes it's hard to hear your soft genuine admiration over their loud shallow compliments". And please don't hold it against us if we don't realize right away that you're the nice guy for us. It may take us a little longer to fall for you, but it'll last twice as long. I'm hoping this is true or else I might have just lost the nice guy I always wanted. signed, missing a nice boy

May 9, 2004

20658
Alice, This is in response to nice guys finish last. Simply put, this is a lot of BS. Sure, I am a nice guy, 33 and single, but I have...
Alice, This is in response to nice guys finish last. Simply put, this is a lot of BS. Sure, I am a nice guy, 33 and single, but I have noticed something. Nice guys like us seem to be a lot more shallow than the average person. Believe me, guys, I know women are a lot more shallow than they will ever admit to, but the fact is, we finish last because we have ridiculous expectations. We say what type of girl we want, but in reality want a beauty queen of some sort. There are millions of single girls out there, and most of them want a guy like us. It's time to get rid of the "impress your friends" syndrome and find a woman you are comfortable with, and can actually communicate with. Believe me, be yourself, be funny; more women like that than you can imagine, and don't base your impression on how she looks. Those looks will fade in time, but her heart will stay the same!

May 9, 2004

20659
Dear Alice, This is (yet another) response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I want to put this out as a warning to the younger...
Dear Alice, This is (yet another) response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I want to put this out as a warning to the younger girls out there. Nice guys are boring. Of course, when you start dating in high school and in college, you want fun and excitement, and while most nice guys can do that, we certainly aren't as fun as bad boys. But eventually you learn that bad boys are just that, and then you can have a much more stable and meaningful relationship with a nice guy who respects you. Here is the warning: while you are learning, so are we. And we are learning from you that being nice will get us nowhere and only guys who are stereotypically "bad" will get the girl. I've seen nice guys fed up with this scenario only to start treating women badly because they feel it's what you want. I've even, myself, felt like being nice and caring is a waste of time, since all it brings is solitude. Fortunately, that is not all it brings; it also makes you feel good, and even un-returned kindness is generally a good feeling. Of course, I am not suggesting it's a girl's fault that her boyfriend is a jerk, but by staying with him, you are sending a message to all the other guys that he is the ideal.

May 9, 2004

20660
Alice, I would really like to respond to the Why do nice guys always finish last? forum. I have a great deal of knowledge with this. I was...
Alice, I would really like to respond to the Why do nice guys always finish last? forum. I have a great deal of knowledge with this. I was the stereotypical "nice guy" in high school. I had several female friends and felt very trapped when I had to hear them talk about other guys they were attracted to, and other relationships they were involved in, while I was stuck feeling like a loser. I had my eyes opened near the end of high school by a comedian's routine on the subject. He said this, "don't let yourself get into the 'friend' zone. Once you're in the 'friend zone,' there's no way out." This routine really hit home. There is a difference between being a nice guy, and being shy. If you don't make it evident to the girls you are attracted to that you are flirting with them, and that you want to be more than friends... then you will never be any more than that. Being nice doesn't mean that you can't flirt. Being nice doesn't mean that you can't have any self-confidence. Being nice doesn't mean that you have to let people walk all over you. Hope that helps, -=Nice guy=-

May 9, 2004

20661
Dear Alice, This is a response to Why do nice guys always finish last? Nice guys are almost always the ones who have a lasting marriage. My Father is one of those "nice guys"; he still brings my...
Dear Alice, This is a response to Why do nice guys always finish last? Nice guys are almost always the ones who have a lasting marriage. My Father is one of those "nice guys"; he still brings my Mother flowers for no reason and they've been married for 32 years! And, I've found one of those "rare" nice guys in my present boyfriend. We've been dating, long-distance, for 3-1/2 years. He will drive 2 hours to see me, stay for only 5 - 6 hours, then he would drive home — having to work at 8 AM the next day! He is very dedicated to me! I haven't had to pay for a thing since we started dating! He is sensitive, sincere, extremely handsome, respectful, etc... So, I'd like to say to that guy who was wondering why "nice guys finish last"... Don't give up! Us women only fall for the bad guys for a short time until we discover who they "really" are; it never lasts. It usually ends up being just a physical thing. A relationship requires much more to last! Believe me! Thank-you. Sincerely, A concerned viewer!

May 9, 2004

20662
Hi Alice, I'd love to respond to, Why do nice guys always finish last? Not only do I prefer nice guys, I also married one. I hope that nice guys losing hope read this message. I've read every...
Hi Alice, I'd love to respond to, Why do nice guys always finish last? Not only do I prefer nice guys, I also married one. I hope that nice guys losing hope read this message. I've read every single response, and it seems like their problems to get a girl are different in each case. Some have low self-esteem, others are too picky, and others approach girls in a too "friendly" way. What do I mean by that? Well, you want to be friendly, but you also want to let her know that you like her in a different way. I've had "bad" guys asking me out, but I rejected them because I wanted to find a nice guy, and I found him! =) This is what my husband did: 1. First, he had the courage to ask me out. 2. He was nice, respectful, and showed he wanted to get to know me; he also showed that he was attracted to me, but not desperate. 3. He showed who he was, his personality, and that he wanted to have fun, maybe get a little "bad with me," not to me. 4. He told me how much he appreciated me, and he let me know I was the only one. 5. Finally, he asked me to marry him. And I married a nice guy like many women do. These are the things that other nice guys do, and this is why they don't have any luck: 1. As soon as they see a girl, either they hide in the corner showing their shocking face, or they annoy the hell out of her with corny jokes. 2. They wish they can ask the girl they want, but they never do. Instead, they wait for girls to ask them out. How do you get a girl if you don't take risks? 3. They think that the girl they want is too much for them. They don't show themselves or show who they are, because they are intimidated by them. 4. They don't change. By this, I'm not telling you that you should change for anybody, be yourself, but the way you care about yourself always counts. Nobody will approach you if you don't smile and you look miserable, or if you look like you rolled out of bed and didn't shave, etc. Always look good! 5. They want to be their friends. You don't approach a girl with the, "Do you want to be my friend?" expression. You come around confident, but showing you are nice with the, "I want to get to know you" look on your face. If they talk about other men in front of you, that's a bad sign; maybe a, "what about me" will make them open their eyes. I hope this helps the nice guys. If not, whatever you do, don't become a stupid guy, and never give up! The woman you want is out there, and if the ones that know you haven't noticed what a great guy you are, then they are naive.

May 9, 2004

20663
Dear Alice, This is in response to the nice guys finishing last article. Men, you have to be the one to approach a woman and initiate the conversation, and to get her interested in you. If you are...
Dear Alice, This is in response to the nice guys finishing last article. Men, you have to be the one to approach a woman and initiate the conversation, and to get her interested in you. If you are thinking that a woman is going to approach a man, and risk being rejected, you better think again. Women will never admit the truth, but they are just as afraid of being rejected as most men, and also have insecurities. When you approach a woman to initiate a conversation, don't automatically think that she is going to reject you. She is feeling the same insecurities and fears of rejection as you, that's why you don't ever see women approaching men. If you have this mentality when approaching women, you will be much more at ease, and confident about yourself. It is not about if you are a nice guy or a bad boy, it is all about confidence. The men who get all the women are the confident ones, that understand the truth that women are just as insecure or maybe even more so than men. Thanks, Rick D

May 9, 2004

20664
Alice, I would like to comment on the topic of why nice guys finish last. I feel that most men are too caught up on trying to impress women by being nice and kissing their #@...
Alice, I would like to comment on the topic of why nice guys finish last. I feel that most men are too caught up on trying to impress women by being nice and kissing their #@&, and, in doing so, just turn them off. I finally realized that all you have to do is be yourself and have fun, and women will pick up on the good vibes that you give off. If you concentrate on trying to impress, you are going to be adding additional stress to yourself, and women will pick up on this. Just be yourself and have a good time, and if she doesn't like you, then forget her, she isn't worth having then. Just keep having fun, and eventually the right woman for you will be attracted to the positive vibes that you are giving off, and when you meet her, you and her will hit it off immediately. Just keep in mind that the more you just be yourself, and interact with women and have fun, you will begin to become more and more comfortable with yourself. Just don't try to impress a woman, because you want her to like you for how you really are, not for some act that you are putting on. Good luck and have fun, Bo Knows! (23)

May 9, 2004

20665
Alice, In response to the nice guys finish last article, I would just like to say I agree with comment number 16! At the same time I am looking for a beauty queen and someone who impresses not only...
Alice, In response to the nice guys finish last article, I would just like to say I agree with comment number 16! At the same time I am looking for a beauty queen and someone who impresses not only my friends but more importantly, me. I know the perfect girl doesn't exist nor does the perfect guy, but I am built, tall, football player, love to cook, and super NICE, and many people say I should model! Is it so wrong of me to want a girl that is athletic, good looking, and nice as well? But when it comes to getting a girl, particularly the blonde haired beauties that I like who go after jerks. However I'm sure that one day being nice will pay off! To all the girls out there: Stop going after jerks and look how nice guys treat you! Nice guys, good luck and keep it up! We can find 'em — they're out there somewhere.

May 9, 2004

20666
Alice, This is in response to the nice guys finish last comment. I would like to send a big thanks to the woman who posted response number 20. I was also one of the lonely nice guys who would bitch...
Alice, This is in response to the nice guys finish last comment. I would like to send a big thanks to the woman who posted response number 20. I was also one of the lonely nice guys who would bitch and complain, but when she commented on the things we do wrong, she described me to a tee. The weight that has been lifted off my shoulders is incredible. I am a very shy person around women, but knowing what I am doing wrong is, I feel, like a Godsend! If the lady who wrote that response is reading this, thank you so much!!! It is great to hear I don't have to change or alter who I am, just how I present myself! :-)

May 9, 2004

20667
Alice, A previous writer wrote about how it was for him being a "built, tall, football player,... and many people say I should model!" Well, most of us nice guys are not. Maybe if I was, I wouldn't...
Alice, A previous writer wrote about how it was for him being a "built, tall, football player,... and many people say I should model!" Well, most of us nice guys are not. Maybe if I was, I wouldn't still be alone. I'd give just about anything to be taller and considered good looking. The only nice guys that seem to get the girls fit into the above category. If you're not tall, built, and good looking, women just overlook you. I've seen it time after time. "However I'm sure that one day being nice will pay off!" Yeah, maybe for him, but not for the rest of us.

May 9, 2004

20668
Alice, This is yet-and-still another response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I'm afraid this isn't going to be the most reassuring answer to you nice guys out there. In my time, I've...
Alice, This is yet-and-still another response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I'm afraid this isn't going to be the most reassuring answer to you nice guys out there. In my time, I've dated more nice guys than not-nice guys. Twice as many, in fact. I hurt every single one of them, and I refuse to date another on that basis. The fact of the matter is, I am not a nice girl when it comes to "nice guys." Even if the initial spark is there with a nice guy, it quickly fades, because I get bored. And once that happens, I'm gone. Nice guys tend to be clingy, and I can't stand not having enough room to breathe. They tend to need to be mothered and protected, and I'm not ready for children. They tend to be passive, and that annoys me. My current boyfriend, of a year-and-a-half (give or take a few days), is not stereotypically "nice." He's a complete asshole to the vast majority of our friends, to be honest. But he's charismatic, charming, witty, strong-willed, and independent. And to me, he's respectful, caring, affectionate, and protective. Most of our friends don't understand what I see in him, because all they see is the not-nice outside. That's all he lets them see. But he's much, much more to me. He keeps my mind stimulated, keeps our relationship fresh and exciting, and keeps me interested. This, perhaps, is another reason why a lot of women don't go for nice guys. Just offering another opinion, ~Un-nice Girl~

May 9, 2004

20669
Dear Alice, In reading the responses to Why do Nice Guys Always Finish Last?, I noticed something about their tone. There are a lot of comments about "protecting" women, or "spoiling them," and even...
Dear Alice, In reading the responses to Why do Nice Guys Always Finish Last?, I noticed something about their tone. There are a lot of comments about "protecting" women, or "spoiling them," and even one reference to "paying" for things for them. Well, isn't "spoiling" something you do to a child or a pet? I'm a very long way from being a strident feminist, but all this sounds a bit icky to me. If a guy indicated to me at the outset of a potential relationship that he wanted to "spoil" me and "protect" me, I'd think he was a bit of a creep, to be frank, and that he didn't see women as equals, but as little cuties in need of a 1950s style protector. Yik! Maybe the "nice guys" need to think about whether they really do see women as equals, as true friends and lovers, and if so, about whether that's coming across in their behaviour. My guy's nice in the sense of caring, honest, committed, romantic, and willing to work at a loving relationship — but he doesn't spoil me, and I wouldn't want him to.

May 9, 2004

20670
Alice, Why do nice guys always finish last? Self-pitying "nice guys" would be well advised to pay attention to this: In my experience, "nice guys" are usually inexperienced and thus have lots of...
Alice, Why do nice guys always finish last? Self-pitying "nice guys" would be well advised to pay attention to this: In my experience, "nice guys" are usually inexperienced and thus have lots of misconceptions. They tend to be resentful towards attractive women because they haven't had a lot of sex and feel as though they're missing out. They tend to have spent much more time thinking about sex than actually having it and thus their opinions are based on second-hand information: TV, movies, magazines, etc. Guys who've had a reasonable amount of experience can tell you that any woman, regardless of whether she's short or tall or fat or skinny, can make you feel wonderful, both in and out of bed. She doesn't have to look like a magazine model. In fact, I used to date a woman who could have been a magazine model and she was cold, selfish, and terrible in bed. Don't assume that those looks will lead to wildness under the covers. Nice guys assume that generically hot women are the only ones that can make them happy, the only ones they can allow themselves to be attracted to. This just isn't true. If this sounds like you, take a look around at the women you know and seriously consider who might be interested in you. Chances are, there will always be someone interested at any given time. Even if she isn't the hourglass you've been dreaming of, get to know her and let yourself enjoy what she has to offer. Once you get some satisfying sex under your belt, you'll realize that looks, as defined by TV and movies, are not everything. In fact, they're almost nothing. This is a wonderful thing to realize. It frees you to enjoy all sorts of possibilities with all sorts of women. Don't limit yourself! Your newfound confidence will let you date around and figure out what you're REALLY looking for in a woman. Keep it up and you'll find one that's just right for you. So, Nice Guys, stop feeling sorry for yourself, go out there, and get dirty. You'll thank yourself in the long run.

May 9, 2004

20671
Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I have to admit that I always seem to fall for the charming player guys who turn out to be complete assholes. They always seem to...
Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I have to admit that I always seem to fall for the charming player guys who turn out to be complete assholes. They always seem to be the exciting ones who make me feel special in the beginning. Because they have so much experience with women, they know exactly what to say even though they don't mean it. The nice guys always seemed to be more respectful by watching what they say and giving me more space, so I took it as they weren't interested in me, while the charming players told me all these other flattering things. But all these guys I became interested in were all wrong for me even though I thought they were so great in the beginning. I knew I wanted a nice guy, but was such a bad judge of character. Finally, I became interested in one of my guy friends who is definitely one of the nicest guys I have ever met. He's respectful and considerate, but still keeps me laughing all the time. Please don't give up. Remember to flirt, but stay nice. Don't let anyone take that away from you. In the end, whoever you are with will appreciate you so much more. Good luck.

May 9, 2004

20672
Dear Alice, Re: Why do nice guys finish last? OK, some of this has already been said, but here is my two-cents worth. Nice guys are sometimes nice, and sometimes lying to themselves. I am a (...
Dear Alice, Re: Why do nice guys finish last? OK, some of this has already been said, but here is my two-cents worth. Nice guys are sometimes nice, and sometimes lying to themselves. I am a (mostly) nice guy, but I have given up on the Meg-Ryan-movies-guy type image that so many of us quiet guys secretly aspire to be. The thing is, you need to be strong! Not physically strong, but you need to do some serious soul searching. Accept that for now, while you rejuvenate yourself. It's ok to be single. Accept that sometime in the future, you want a lasting relationship. Then do some soul searching. Realise that whoever you are, whatever you believe and uncover about yourself, just accept that it is part of you for now. Accept before you try to change or you will just be wearing a mask. Once you have started to realise who you really are, be confident in who you are, and realise that whatever your life IS right now, it's like that for a reason; once you realise all this and stop placing such a high importance of being in a relationship, THEN you will be free to experience one. This may seem a hard road to follow, but really it's a matter of getting the ball rolling. And trust me, when it comes to the end of the road, you don't really have much choice.

May 9, 2004

20673
Dear Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last?: I'm what most people would call a "very nice" guy. I treat women with dignity and respect. I am polite and courteous and try...
Dear Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last?: I'm what most people would call a "very nice" guy. I treat women with dignity and respect. I am polite and courteous and try to be as thoughtful as possible. I used to have the attitude that nice guys finish last. I was amazed that women I was interested in always treated me as a "friend" or a "brother" — I got the "it's not you, it's me" line ALL the time. If I had a dime for every time I heard "you're so sweet, but..." And it pained me to no end to see all these women fall for charming, good-looking assholes. Instead of stewing in my own self pity, I kept friendships going with these women — and I started asking them what was missing... what I could do better. A lot of what I've read here from reader responses was me thru and thru. I was needy, clingy, somewhat shy. And I didn't play to my strengths. I had no self-confidence. I talked to these female friends and I got some honest answers, some of which I wasn't entirely prepared to accept. Now, I'm 40 (happily, people say I can easily pass for 30 or 31), and I've lived through two failed marriages (both situations were completely wrong, but I was so enthralled with actually "being with" someone, I was blind to the pitfalls that awaited me). I'm back on the dating scene — and things are SO much different now than they were when I was in high school or college... or even in my mid-20s. I'm still a "nice guy" — maybe even nicer than I was then. But now — as opposed to then — I have plenty of self-confidence. I feel like I have a good command of who I am and what I have to offer — I like myself and am happy with myself. I made a lot of changes in my life. Like respondent #10 said, women don't want doormats for lovers — they want someone who is confident, witty, and in control. It took time, but I learned how to bring out those qualities. They were always there, I just didn't know how access them and play to my strengths. I made a few changes in myself as well. I'll never be confused with Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt. But I committed myself to fitness, and through a strict diet and strength training routine, I lost weight and put on muscle. I pay close attention to grooming and how I dress. I smile, make eye contact, flirt some. I don't mind getting a bit racy at times. And, unlike the past, I don't just stand back in the shadows and wait to be introduced. I'm not afraid to politely step up to the plate and introduce myself and initiate conversation. What's more, I don't necessarily go after the beauty queens, either. I learned that by expanding my view of what I find to be "attractive" to include women who might have fallen off my radar screen years ago. I now am opening up a whole world of possibilities by not overlooking some really great people! I'm not looking for a relationship to "impress" anyone or "validate" my own self worth, either. I'm looking for a relationship with someone with whom I can totally mesh — someone who will be my lifelong partner. Amazingly, at 40, I've been getting a lot of play from much younger women (as much as 15 years younger). Maybe they think I have a lot of money (I don't). Maybe they're looking for a sexually experienced man (not complaining there, and yes, I can be very creative in bed). But either way, it's fun. I'm having fun. And I've been dating one young woman off and on for a while now — time will tell if we have a future together. If it's not meant to be her, I know the "right one" will come along at some point. And thru it all, I haven't changed WHO I am one iota. I'm still a very "nice guy" — still polite and courteous and thoughtful. Still honest and devoted and faithful. So, to all you younger nice guys who are close to giving up hope, I say this: don't. Don't be afraid to step up to the plate and take a few chances. Don't change WHO you are... BUT — change specific things about yourself... find areas where you can improve yourself. • LEARN how to be more confident. • Lift some weights — get yourself in shape. You don't have to look like a movie star to be "seen" as attractive. Women don't like slobs. • Pay attention to how you dress, what you say and do. • Live a healthy lifestyle. • Devote yourself to interesting pursuits. • Ask your female friends for advice — LEARN about what women like and want. • "Expand your horizons" — don't just go after the hottest thing in a halter-top and heels. • Don't make finding "the one" the end-all and be-all of your existence. When you stop looking for her and start enjoying life, she'll practically fall into your lap. Take it from one who has been there. Good luck and God bless, Happy older "Nice Guy"

May 9, 2004

20674
Dear Alice, About the nice guys who finished last. The nice guys' complaints are true to a point: if you hide yourself...
Dear Alice, About the nice guys who finished last. The nice guys' complaints are true to a point: if you hide yourself & only communicate occasionally with women, then you're bound to see less of the action. But as a girlfriend of a really nice guy, who is not "told that he should model" or plays football, and who is actually my height & even younger than me, I have to disagree with your desperation. My BF, too, had to stick around & watch me hook up with a couple of obnoxious machos, but after they were out of the picture, he stepped into it & confessed his wish for us to be more than just pals. It sure paid off for both of us! It's now over a year since we've been together & right now, he's abroad & I miss him greatly. I've seen the same happen with several of my girlfriends, who were hung up on bad boys & are now content with perfectly nice guys. These guys — like my friend's husband, who was a virgin till he was 24 — are just happy with the way they are. They look around to see who they can make friends with & what arouses their interest — not just seeking sex & love, but also really looking to make out the best of life & themselves. Even if you're 40, it's not too late! Get into whatever turns you on, be true to yourself, & your enthusiasm with life is bound to create encounters with women. Be true to your feelings & communicate them, there's nothing wrong with friendship, & having opposite sex friends is a real advantage, but if you want to move to a next level, be open about it. Let your female friend know you are serious. Avoid the pain of rejection, realize that you're offering something great. There are plenty of women out there who regret not choosing that nice guy. Signed, lover of a nice guy

May 9, 2004

20675
Hi Alice, I have been a nice guy my entire life and no women will date me. I am attractive, intelligent, caring, and kooky crazy! The only girls that do want me are the girls who just want one thing...
Hi Alice, I have been a nice guy my entire life and no women will date me. I am attractive, intelligent, caring, and kooky crazy! The only girls that do want me are the girls who just want one thing. Sex. Those women that do like me and are nice say that I am too good for them. Friends say I am too nice to set up with their friends. Not too long ago, I went on a date. The date was incredible. We really hit it off. At the end, we were talking about dreams to come. She then told me that she didn't want a relationship. She thought I was really hot and just wanted to be friends with benefits. I will admit that she was an astoundingly beautiful woman on the outside. She was sweet, caring, intelligent, and my favorite, driven, but she didn't want to be with me. At least not wholly. It is true that I feel like I will always finish last, but I know it isn't true. When I do finally meet the right woman and fall in love, I then will not only know in my mind, but also feel in my heart the truth that we all know. Nice guys finish first before it even starts. Have a nice day. :)

May 9, 2004

20676
Hello nice guys and gals! I'm a twenty-six-year-old "nice guy" who hasn't had a girlfriend for 8 years. I am a great looking guy (I think), I'm intelligent, funny, talented, and hard working. When...
Hello nice guys and gals! I'm a twenty-six-year-old "nice guy" who hasn't had a girlfriend for 8 years. I am a great looking guy (I think), I'm intelligent, funny, talented, and hard working. When it comes to my choice in women, I go for personality and intelligence, not looks (God knows, I dated a ++sized woman in high school and had probably the best relationship I've ever had). I can usually get up the courage to ask a woman out. So why am I still monastery material right now? I'll tell you. As you can probably guess from the other responses, it isn't always the "nice guy's" fault. There are just an awful lot of women who just don't know what they want, think they know what they want, but don't know what they need, or know what they want and need but aren't willing to cross gender roles to get it. I think Alice in her first letter said it best, when she said that, " sociocultural training and expectations don't support women who assert themselves to men". Respondent 27 said that women need to know from men that they see them as equals and not something to spoil and protect, but if this is true, then shouldn't men expect the same from women? The Women's Rights Movement has accomplished quite a bit in its 40 or so year existence to ensure equal educational and professional treatment, but on the other hand, a lot of women don't want gender equality to extend to the realm of relationships. In spite of this newly won equality of our modern era, a lot of women are still stuck in the '50s, and they expect men to hold the door for them and pay for everything, and expect them to take all the initiative in relationships. Do you think that men, especially "nice men," are any more or less afraid or affected by rejection than women? Do you think that it's fair that only men should be the ones who risk a case of nervous diarrhea every time they prepare to make overtures to a member of the opposite sex? I say no! I know this is getting a little long, but please bear with me. I've been holding this in for a long time and I need to get it out. I made the mistake of going out with my last girlfriend twice. She cheated on me the first time, so I broke up with her, then, after we went out the second time, she was the one who broke it off. Why? Because she cheated on me a second time. Anyway, about 7 years passed until one day she gave me a call, we talked a little, I found out she has 3 kids by 3 different men, and she invited me out for dinner, just as friends. Well, as we were sitting in that restaurant, she admitted to me that she had thought about our relationship a lot over the years and she said she realized that I was a nice guy and that she treated me badly. It's really too bad that she had to mess her life up so much just to say she knew what she really needed. Like I said, a lot of women don't know what they want, what they need, or how to get them. But we nice guys shouldn't change for anybody either. I know I won't even though I'm not hopeful that I'll ever find that caring companion who will "hold my hand and kiss me goodnight." Sincerely, The "nice guy" in the dark night of the soul

May 9, 2004

20677
Alice, I would like to respond to the question regarding nice guys, and why they finish last. I'm a college-aged female, and I date fairly often. In addition to my interactions with males in the...
Alice, I would like to respond to the question regarding nice guys, and why they finish last. I'm a college-aged female, and I date fairly often. In addition to my interactions with males in the realm of dating, I have many male friends. In fact, many of my male friends are genuine "nice guys." And I would absolutely never consider dating a single one of them. There is a difference between a "guy who happens to be nice" and a "nice guy." There are plenty of guys with pleasant personalities, who are courteous and respectful, who don't have the kinds of problems "nice guys" seem to have. And I'll tell you why: if you take a look at every "nice guy" you know, I guarantee you'll notice a common factor... they all lack confidence. Which, unfortunately... means they come off as, well, pathetic, at times. (Certainly, the extent to which the "nice guys" bemoan their fates could be indicative of a bit of low self-esteem, if you ask me.) Nice guys complain that girls pursue guys who treat them badly; we aren't seeking out "un-nice" guys. We're looking for guys with confidence, much as guys are much more interested in females who come without loads of insecurities. So, if I have the choice between dating a guy who is a bit of an arrogant asshole and a "nice guy," I'll take the asshole; it may not last, but it's far less annoying to date someone with TOO MUCH confidence than to date someone without enough. The "nice guy" seems to pose a much greater threat of ending up in a codependent relationship, and who wants that? "Nice guys" seem to insist that one day, every woman will come to her senses and realize that she really needs a "nice guy"... but I think perhaps the reason it takes us so long to "come around" is because it takes you that long to snap out of your self-pitying insecurities. So, in the end, if the "nice guys" would do some soul-searching, discover what they have to offer beyond "being nice guys," puff up their chests a bit and go after what they want, rather than whining about "finishing last"... maybe they'd end up being "guys who happen to be nice" instead of "nice guys." Thanks, Alice, for letting me get that off my chest.

May 9, 2004

20678
Hey nice guys out there, I, too, was "too good of a FRIEND" to a lot of the girls whom I was interested in dating. I finally learned what I needed to do to get in on the female radar. 1. Continue...
Hey nice guys out there, I, too, was "too good of a FRIEND" to a lot of the girls whom I was interested in dating. I finally learned what I needed to do to get in on the female radar. 1. Continue to be nice, but DON'T be a pushover. 2. Women (most of the time subconsciously) love it when you know how to put your foot down when they are being bratty. Speak up! 3. Women get too freaked out when you are such a close "friend" and then all of a sudden you drop the bomb and tell these women that they have been in your fantasies for years. 4. Make sure you are well groomed and you have some decent clothes to wear. Make sure you ask your female "friends" to let you know what color goes with what. (This helps A LOT!!) 5. Don't be fake about things. Women like it when you are genuine. 6. YES! You DO have to approach them first. Even if she says, "No," So What? Did it kill you?! You are not going to know unless you ask! Your first "No" everyday is the hardest (believe me, I go through this EVERYDAY when I'm single and on the prowl). But after the first "No," the next one is easier, then the next one is easier, then the next one is easier... then, BAM! You get a "Yes"! 7. Let them know UPFRONT exactly what your intentions are. If you approach them on a "friendship" level, what exactly do you expect? If you want to approach them on a romantic level, give them a genuine compliment about how they look and ask them if they have a boyfriend. If they say that they don't have a boyfriend at the moment... WAKE UP!! She just gave you a hint that she is interested and she is waiting for you to take the conversation further! Women can be so much fun once you learn how to deal with them. The game of pursuit has been played ever since the caveman. It is in our blood as human beings. Neither men nor women will ever change this game. No matter how much women tell you differently, they enjoy knowing that you find them attractive and they are dying for you to tell them so. Just be nice, upfront on your intentions, give them a genuine compliment, dress decently, and don't creep them out by following them throughout the mall without saying a word. (This is very important, they would much rather you come out and talk to them rather than have you follow them around.) I certainly hope this helps out! Signed: Still a "nice" guy who has lots of dates with "nice" girls

May 9, 2004

20679
Dear Alice, I'm responding to the WHY DO NICE GUYS ALWAYS FINISH LAST? article. I've always been a prototypical nice guy, so I found the article and many responses quite interesting. I agree with...
Dear Alice, I'm responding to the WHY DO NICE GUYS ALWAYS FINISH LAST? article. I've always been a prototypical nice guy, so I found the article and many responses quite interesting. I agree with the many responses that said that (part of) the problem is that nice guys are often passive or insecure. I'm still a "nice guy," but I have become a lot more confident the past few years and a lot more women have been noticing me than in the past. Little things that come with confidence are so important to flirting, dating, and relationships. Make lots of eye contact (this is a big one guys). If there's someone you're interested in, go up and talk to her respectfully, but show your confidence and assets. You don't have to be a jerk to do these things. (A note to women: it's very important for you to be confident, too! Confidence is a very sexy trait. Believe it or not, most guys do want a strong, confident woman. Being insecure, obsessed with your body image, or whatever is not appealing. Women also need to be willing to take some risks. If you're interested in a great guy, you don't have to ask him out but at least drop some hints to let him know you're interested and don't be intimidated. If you're in a bad or abusive relationship, end it even if it means you might be single for a little while. You don't have to put up with it. I'm NOT suggesting that these situations are the woman's fault, but since so many women stay in bad or abusive relationships, this sends men the wrong message that this is acceptable or even that this is what women really want.) Unfortunately, though, the assertiveness issue isn't the only thing nice guys have going against them. Most women find nice guys, no matter how confident, very boring and lacking in any challenge (quite a few other responses mentioned this as well). The boring thing is kind of like physical attraction... no matter how much people try not to think about it or deny that it's important, it still is. I remember a few years ago talking to a girl after she broke up with one of my friends; she told me how nice the guy was, how well he treated her, how attractive and intelligent he was, but "he's sooooooooo boring." This seems very typical. She's now dating someone with a criminal record and a drinking problem. I guess I could take up skydiving, late-night clubbing, develop more bad habits, or occasionally disappear or act like a jerk, but that wouldn't be me. So, while being more confident and assertive definitely helps a lot and can give us a fighting chance, even so, I think the nice guy will always face an uphill battle.

May 9, 2004

20680
Dear Alice, One of the commonalities I keep seeing in the "nice guys" responses is a sense of futility in connecting with a similarly "nice woman." Being boring is a sign of seeking companionship...
Dear Alice, One of the commonalities I keep seeing in the "nice guys" responses is a sense of futility in connecting with a similarly "nice woman." Being boring is a sign of seeking companionship with people who are not on the same page. A responsible nice guy has no business wasting his effort on a foolish woman who is still seeking bad boys. The nice girls are not at the bars, clubs, and strip joints. Stop blaming the women who seek men unlike you! Go places the responsible nice girls are who will appreciate your stability, charm, wit, and honor. The ladies are lowering their standards because so few of us nice guys actually believe in ourselves enough to show them that we are worth waiting for. No one cares to be around a complaining mealy mouse who whines that no one loves me, likes me, or gives me the time of day! Honorable women are in churches, synagogues, volunteer centers, schools, hobby stores, grocery stores on weekends, evenings, etc... Make your own like guys, the girls will follow. Signed, a happily married nice guy who didn't let the excuses get in the way!

May 9, 2004

20681
Alice, As if 20 responses weren't enough, I want to add something to the responses to Why do nice guys always finish last? As I read the responses, I thought of two men in my life. The first was a...
Alice, As if 20 responses weren't enough, I want to add something to the responses to Why do nice guys always finish last? As I read the responses, I thought of two men in my life. The first was a man I dated a few months ago, a self-proclaimed "nice guy." I stayed with this guy for at least a month longer than I would have, because he very much believed that he was a nice guy, and I wanted to believe it, too. The truth was that he was boring, self-centered, shallow, and one-dimensional, and not all that nice after all. I spent hours listening to details about his job, which never changed, and his one outside interest. He even hurt me during sex, and when I told him later (yelling "Ow!" was apparently not sufficient communication at the time), he didn't believe me and refused to change his routine. See ya, "nice guy." The other man I thought of is a very dear friend of mine. He's not handsome. He's never said he's a nice guy. He's funny, intelligent, well-rounded, and honest. He holds doors for me, doesn't mind when I hold a door for him, and tells me things I need to know, whether they're pleasant or not. He treats me with respect. If I could design the perfect man, it would be this guy. If his wife ever tosses him, I'll be there to catch him. Unfortunately (or fortunately, since I do want him to be happy in life), there is no sign that this might happen. She knows what she's got, and she ain't giving it up. Nice guys, cut it out. Stop being nice guys and just be you. Build your life to be what you want it to be, and enjoy it. Don't search for someone to make your life complete; make your own life complete, and when someone comes along, you'll have something interesting to offer.

May 9, 2004

20682
Alice, I'm commenting on the Why do nice guys always finish last?. I've read just about all the comments and thought I would add my own. Reading this actually helps me out and I appreciate all of...
Alice, I'm commenting on the Why do nice guys always finish last?. I've read just about all the comments and thought I would add my own. Reading this actually helps me out and I appreciate all of the people who had something to say. I'm, of course, one of the nice guys and I've tried everything except a couple of things I read. And since I've read all of this, I've understood and I've been doing better. I make myself a bit more noticeable and I make my girl wait on me and it makes her want me more. But don't wait too long or she will give up on you. But I just wanted to say thanx for everything. Thanx for the help, Not lonely anymore

May 9, 2004

20683
Hi Alice, This is in response to, Why do nice guys always finish last? Like so many of the readers who have commented so far, I, too, used to ask myself the same question. I had several...
Hi Alice, This is in response to, Why do nice guys always finish last? Like so many of the readers who have commented so far, I, too, used to ask myself the same question. I had several relationships in high school and college into which I invested tremendous amounts of emotional commitment, only to have them fall apart because, as I see it, I probably gave too much. Some guys, without realizing it, do give too much. What results is that women begin to take it for granted, whether they realize it or not. But that didn't mean that I changed my ways. At one point, I was resolved to the fact that I'd probably remain single for my whole life. This wasn't necessarily due to my being rejected as much as it was due to the fact that I truly believed I'd never find a woman with whom I'd want to spend the rest of my life. Shortly thereafter, I struck up a friendship with the woman who would one day become my wife. We were friends for over a year, and then we became lovers. It was my "niceness" that she later told me she was first attracted to. So, there are women out there who appreciate a nice guy. My only advice is that if you begin to feel like your niceness is being taken for granted, maybe you should address the issue head on. I have to admit that there have been times in my marriage when I had to gently remind my wife that we should be careful about not taking each other for granted.

May 9, 2004

20684
Hi Alice! This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I'm a what you would call a nice guy. I'm currently in a three-year relationship with the nicest and greatest girl ever. I...
Hi Alice! This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I'm a what you would call a nice guy. I'm currently in a three-year relationship with the nicest and greatest girl ever. I think that girls like to go after guys who, shall I say, are the shezz-nezz. I have plenty of guys who are nice guys, but the problem I think is that girls would look to appearance first. I know it's what's inside that counts, but really now, when first starting our courtship, that's the first thing, then our personality. Most nice guys, to tell you the truth, aren't "HOT," but I'll tell you this, they are "cuties". My friends, all nice guys, are beggin' to be in a relationship with girls. But somehow they can't seem to get some. They've always been nice and true to themselves, but it seems that it doesn't work. Nice guys nowadays are thought to be extinct, but really we are there always quiet and smiling. We never make a scene 'cause there is no need to make a scene or act in a way that drives us from who we really are. I've always been known to be a "nice guy." Girls always say that I listen to them and understand them and that I'm true to myself. But that is the way I've always been. I've always followed the motto "to treat others as you wanted to be treated," and I think that's what got me to be a nice guy. Also I think that nice guys, who are afraid to talk to a girl because "they're out of your league," need to understand that girls are also somebody else's daughters and they are quite approachable and not a wall that you can't get around. I have a cousin who you may call a 'player.' I admit , yeah, he has the looks, but his personality is horrible. He has a girlfriend right now and he treats her like trash, and I ask her why does she stay with him? Her reply is simply, "oh, 'cause I love him and he loves me." I think that if somebody really loves you, they would never leave you, have sex with another girl, then come crawling back to you. A message to nice girls out there and girls who want a girl guy: A nice guy may seem like your 'best friend,' but usually before being your best friend, he would have a major crush on you, but he's afraid to say anything. And to girls wanting to find a nice guy, try talking to the quiet ones who do nothing but smile. A smile is usually the only thing you can do when you like someone. A message to all the nice guys out there: Never give up hope, it's what you've been always waiting for and soon it will happen. The girls will come to you. Talk loud and proud and don't be afraid to be yourself. If a girl thinks that what you are doing is stupid, well then she doesn't know what she's missing. Always be true to your heart.

May 9, 2004

20685
Alice, I am responding to Why do nice guys always finish last? — I believe every nice guy and girl should understand the concept of "value." It is important for the nice guy himself to realize...
Alice, I am responding to Why do nice guys always finish last? — I believe every nice guy and girl should understand the concept of "value." It is important for the nice guy himself to realize whether he values his good qualities in himself, as well as in the girl he's looking for. If he is, it's then natural for him to seek the same nice qualities in a girl, and vice versa. So, I think there is something wrong if a guy calls himself a nice guy, but tries to pursue a girl that's anything other than nice. It takes a nice guy longer or much longer because he's looking for a nice girl who can appreciate his qualities. I am a nice guy, married for 7 years, about to separate from my wife. I can tell everyone that I'd rather not be married if I cannot find the right (nice) person with the qualities that I value. And to all the nice guys that think they finish last: we can look for ways to improve ourselves for the one we are going to meet.

May 9, 2004

20686
Alice, My response to Why do nice guys always finish last?: I've always been a nice guy, but was never desperate. I dated many women through the years, some serious, some not. Some were physical,...
Alice, My response to Why do nice guys always finish last?: I've always been a nice guy, but was never desperate. I dated many women through the years, some serious, some not. Some were physical, some weren't. I always noticed that when I was feeling good about myself and not "dying" for a relationship, the opportunities came. You have to develop your own interests, hobbies, and develop who you are and your sense of humor. Sometimes it seemed like I didn't come in first... but as I look back... I realize that the losses weren't the prize I wanted anyway. My wife left me for a "Bad Boy"... since then, I have met the most wonderful woman in the world. Our relationship is fantastic on a personality, friendship, support, and sexual level... So I ask you... when the ex-wife jilted me... did I really lose?

May 9, 2004

20687
Dear Alice, I want to comment towards Why do nice guys always finish last? I have experienced situations like this with a girl, which leaded me to respond to this. I believe guys SHOULD treat girls...
Dear Alice, I want to comment towards Why do nice guys always finish last? I have experienced situations like this with a girl, which leaded me to respond to this. I believe guys SHOULD treat girls with the proper respect and make them feel that you are a genuine person and THAT IS AS FAR AS YOU GO (depending on what type of girls, etc.: decent or undecent girls). Guys should always keep their self-respect, but playing too easy to get and sucking up to girls may not be the best idea to win a girl's heart; being too nice to girls would make them feel that anything they do, regardless of what, will not upset you, and that's why some nice guys finish last. Try not to think of it as impressing a girl, but rather let them impress you, because I believe girls are just as desperate as us. The best way to be nice is simple, just try not to hurt a girl's feelings and that's it. BEING TOO NICE MAKES YOU LOOK VULNERABLE AND IMMATURE.

May 9, 2004

20688
Hi Alice, I am responding to Why Do Nice Guys Always Finish Last? I am thirtysomething, professional, reasonably physically appealing, and a well-rounded person. I am also a "nice guy" who has...
Hi Alice, I am responding to Why Do Nice Guys Always Finish Last? I am thirtysomething, professional, reasonably physically appealing, and a well-rounded person. I am also a "nice guy" who has suffered the slings and arrows of unrequited love. I find merit in all of the responses. But I will try to add more to the discussion. I used to be a very passive "nice guy." But then as I began to grow and mature, I developed confidence and strength to complement the better angels of my nature. In my late 20s, I had a string of bad encounters with women I fell in love with. These women had one thing in common: they would work their way back into my trust when I would accept their desire to remain "friends" and walk away. But at the moment I had completely committed myself, they would abruptly pull away. Eventually, I indulged my dark side, sent my conscience on vacation, and manipulated and mistreated a string of women in a form of misdirected revenge against those who had hurt me. As I separated myself from those situations, I found that the women who had hurt me came back into my life, not to reconcile, but to ask for my friendship in ways I could not accept (seeing that they had since married). Today, I date occasionally, and even though I have grown in ways that I couldn't have imagined years ago, I still find myself in situations where the women in whom I am most interested have some obstruction to getting close to me. I say all this to say that it is difficult for emotionally honest, earnest men to find the women they really want. That's the politics, baby, and they're difficult to comprehend sometimes. But I have discovered some key coping skills that help me through these dilemmas: 1. Foster your interests and talents. Too many times, nice guys define themselves by what the woman of the moment thinks of them, instead of constantly redefining themselves. 2. Ask yourself the hard questions about your expectations, and whether you are really seeking the right things in a mate or a dating relationship. 3. Don't feel bad about dating around. Too many times, nice guys focus on one person. 4. Remember your past hurts, but only for the purpose of not repeating the same mistakes or falling into a similar pattern. 5. Sometimes things are going to be messed up. Sometimes you don't get what you want. That's a hard fact, but it must be accepted. 6. Develop a healthy cynicism about the opposite sex. Women are all too human. That cynicism will help you in avoiding a situation which will hurt you, but will also free you from idealizing a woman at first sight, and will give you greater confidence and freedom to be candid. 7. There's no shame in being a romantic or doing nice things for a woman, but don't expect a return. Send flowers, open doors, give compliments, write letters or poetry because it's on your heart, but earnest gestures are not always requited. In the right situation, they will be. 8. Be patient. 9. Be strong. 10. Trust in God's will. It ain't always pleasant, but it manifests itself for a reason.

May 9, 2004

20689
Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I have read through all the comments and it's really awesome that so many have taken the time to share their thoughts on this...
Alice, This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last? I have read through all the comments and it's really awesome that so many have taken the time to share their thoughts on this article. Anyway, this is what I think. I have always been very nice to girls — When I was in high school and elementary school, this meant I was always picked on, mostly by the girls actually. But when I went to college, EVERYTHING changed. It was really amazing — I found that by always being nice, numerous girls flocked to me. I found endless girls really wanted to know me — Some of these girls were the most beautiful, most attractive girls in the world... I really mean that. I couldn't believe that simply by being nice, giving a girl a little bit of attention and affection, that these drop dead gorgeous girls actually liked me, even though I have no good looks or money or anything else. It's truly amazing going to school everyday and each day having 10 beautiful sweet girls smile and ask me how I am and want to be with me... this happens EVERY day and I love it! Nice guys and nice girls always WIN!

April 28, 2000

20352
Hi Alice,

This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last?

I'm nineteen and have had three more serious boyfriends. The first...

Hi Alice,

This is in response to Why do nice guys always finish last?

I'm nineteen and have had three more serious boyfriends. The first was nice for about two weeks and then beat me up. The last was nice but completely oblivious to relationships and quite self-centered. The second one, however, was truly a nice guy.

The point I want to make is that I know nice guys really finish FIRST because the only guy I am still friends with is the truly nice one. Though we aren't romantically involved at the moment, we are best friends and we both agree that we had the best time with each other even though he has a current girlfriend whom he loves.

Please, don't ever give up hope! Once a girl has gotten over trying to reform guys, or change her image by dating a "bad" guy, or gotten off the risky high of dating a bad guy and really knows what she wants, she will turn to a guy like you.

Really nice guys seem way too few and far between and when I find one for me, I'm going to hold on to him.

Best of Luck! :)